Third-gender pronouns and binary-identified individuals

[feuervogel]

I read a blog post yesterday, an intro post from a guest blogger at feministe who usually writes over at Questioning Transphobia.

Queen Emily writes Don’t use third gender pronouns (eg “ze” and “hir”) on a binary identified person because it ungenders them. (Third-gender pronouns are also known as gender-neutral pronouns.) Then down in comments, she says, When someone uses “ze” to refer to me when I have explicitly referred to myself as a trans woman, it’s ungendering and cissexist to boot.

When I read this post by sohotrightnow, Queen Emily's post was the first thing I thought of, even though the writer of the problematic story (which I agree is problematic, and that is not the topic of this post; I'm not even involved in bandom) identifies as female.

The section that made me click the link to the writer's profile:

When I engaged promisethstars in discussion and tried to explain why this was bothering me, zie raised the point that the story is an AU, and argued that from zir perspective, there was no difference between making Gabe Saporta a Catholic priest for zir AU and making Patrick Stump a prostitute for another AU.

(You can see the wtfery evidenced by promisethstars in this quote, but that's not what I'm looking at.) I clicked the profile tag, and saw that Megan will occasionally "fangirl out." To me, that reads as "I identify as a girl."

Ungendering is a tactic used against trans-spectrum individuals by the media, academics, and radical feminists. I obviously do NOT believe that using "zie" to refer to a binary-identified cis-individual has anywhere near the emotional impact it does on a binary-identified trans-individual. But it isn't appropriate, either.

Or am I talking out of my ass here?

Comments

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

Some people just use "zie" instead of "they" as a gender-neutral pronoun. Personally, I find "they" to sound more neutral. "Zie," as you mentioned has connotations of being specifically genderqueer; plus, it is not really a part of day to day language so it sticks out.

I usually default to gender-neutral pronouns unless it is obvious the person prefers other wise. And as princess, says it is away to obscure the person's identity so as to make what you are saying sound more general and less directed at a certain person.

"I obviously do NOT believe that using "zie" to refer to a binary-identified cis-individual has anywhere near the emotional impact it does on a binary-identified trans-individual." - This I agree with strongly.

[feuervogel]

At its root, it's an issue of respect: respect what people tell you about themselves. Don't be an asshole. You know?

I'm also all for using gender-neutral pronouns when the referent's gender isn't important (instead of "generic he," which does nothing but perpetuate male normativity).

Out of curiosity, how'd you find my post?

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

Of course, it boils down to respecting what people tell about themselves. Basically, yeah, do not be an asshole.

I found your post by googling bandom meta gender, you are on the second page.

[feuervogel]

That's kind of terrifying. (Though less terrifying than my initial thought of "oh shit, don't tell me I'm on metafandom." Yeah, I don't know why metafandom is scarier than google.)

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

Because once something gets posted on metafandom you get swarms of people.
I think metafandom usually informs people before they link the post. (Or am I wrong?)

Google just relies on someone (ex. me) having too much time on their hands and googling things they want to read about.

[feuervogel]

It's definitely the expanded audience thing. MF doesn't always inform people they're linking, but they'll always remove the link if you ask.