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(mod) LJ Cohen taught PT students how to handle disabled patients
Sarah Pinsker epilepsy education
Gwendolyn Clare concerned as an educator
Shira Lipkin neuro disabilities, doesn't see people like her in sf; erasure
LJ reads story from yesterday's Guardian “Many depictions of disabled characters are outdated, incorrect. Rooted in social norms, devalue individual. Limiting characterization, inaccuracies portrayed as truth; disability hate crime” That's why it's important to portray these characters in fiction.
Q: Why are there so few characters w/disabilities in SF?
SL: responds to quote: disabilities aren't always a struggle. CWD more difficult to write, more research, barriers to entry for disabled writers-workshops, residencies. Outsider perspectives, struggle narratives. People are afraid to tackle it.
Q: is the status of CWD similar to where we came from with queer characters?
GC: starting to progress. How can write a character with real agency, despite being disabled, without focusing on the disability?
SP: It's intimidating to get writing the other right, same erasure problems, people wonder why there's an Other character there. People imagine colorless, genderless, etc future.
Q: Character w/disability = new damsel in distress? Kid w/autism needs to be protected, person in wheelchair needs to be saved.
SP: Miles Vorkosigan has agency etc despite being disabled
SL: Miles is the only disabled character people can think of; that's really telling.
GC: Tyrion (GOT), important to narrative
LJ: Jenny Casey (E Bear); portrays washed-out soldier who battles w/her body on a daily basis, deals with arthritis, PTSD, etc. In fantasy it's a “perfect” world; should see more realistic things in SF
SL: new (medical) technologies could become dangerous
GC: cybernetic limbs are a solution, can also erase – cure trope
LJ: “A Wizard Alone” problematic-resolution is cure of wizard with autism
SL: Autism Speaks doesn't speak for autistic people; Deaf cochlear implants; not everybody wants a cure
GC: comes from a good place, people want to help loved ones, but it comes out not benevolent but “if you have a disability, you cannot be a protagonist with agency until you get fixed.”
SP: erases struggle people have gone through
LJ: And success.
Remembers example on NPR of war correspondent who was paraplegic since teenager (Fresh Air). Covering stories in US vs Beirut. Despite existence of ADA here, it was easier for him to work in war-torn countries that didn't have the legislation, curb cuts, etc. Community that help each other. In US, it's individual oriented.
How much does independence above all influence works?
SL: Culture absolutely affects.
LJ: Culture of cure
SL: Wants to see in SF: Cure will be asymmetrical. Diabetes will be cured before epilepsy, rarer genetic disorders. Less impetus to cure everything
Will be unevenly distributed
SP: Culture of cure – medical conferences, drug companies don't want to bring out drugs with tiny market; not profitable enough. Easy cures are a false road.
SL: No one knows how epileptic drugs affect the brain.
LJ: a lot of ways to explore the narrative of unevenly distributed cure
GC: culture of cure includes a culture of stigma against mental illness, any disabilities.
Q: Characters with developmental disabilities fall into 2 categories: victim or comic relief
SL: Hodor is comic relief, disturbed to see him on the list
GC: Lacks agency, dehumanized
SP: short vs long fiction? Few novels, but some shorts. Recs “Movement” by Nancy Fulda
Q: Aside from Miles, who is portrayed well?
SL: Jenny Casey, Tyrion
LJ: Bran, Jamie loses hand – loses ability, feels that agency damaged in process
SL: how are characters who become disabled different from born with disability?
GC: Charles Xavier
Q: Who is portrayed poorly?
GC: anyone with a disability superpower (DareDevil)
SP: Charlie (Algernon) [discussion that it was visited by the suck fairy]
LJ: by lazy writer
SL: motivational character for protagonist
LJ: Tony Stark? Vulnerable because of injuries, supercompensates: good or bad example?
SL: In character for Tony. What about the Hulk? Can't control transformations
GC: Pepper cured of annoying superpower, bothered her;
SP: Batman cures broken back through exercise
SL: bootstraps!
LJ: peeve: almost mortal wounds that character recovers from quickly. Portrayal of injury, wound healing, pain laughable.
GC: creates narrative that tough=injury doesn't matter
SL: insidious message to send our culture
SP: do the research, get it right
LJ: no excuse to get it wrong other than laziness (internet exists). RL example of Shira's point: sons are r-g colorblind. Teacher gave detention because he didn't color maps right. She reminded them he's colorblind. Teacher said “if he tried hard enough, he could do a good job.”
This finds its way into our fiction, to the detriment of all.
Aud: points out things. Sp Ed teacher, gifted w/special needs, has special needs herself. Appreciates that they didn't belittle it. Wants feedback: problematic in F/SF attitude in society, teachers push “we're all disabled” but it does a disservice to kids. (Some kind of organization?) Also modern writers of YA depicting disabled characters in a different way. “Get it” better. How do you think adult writers will address this generation of kids, who've read this YA?
SP: needs to be more, invisibility
discussion of CPAP machine: what will happen when the electricity goes away?
SL: wants to know what this generation will write. “We're all disabled” is a huge erasure. Discusses difficulty settings: just acknowledge it. Don't erase lived experiences.
LJ: something precious in that conceit.
Aud: exploration of disability in Peter Watts' Blindsight
LJ: found it fascinating; characters flawed and advantaged in interesting ways
SL: can't discuss without spoilers
GC: overall message is that people with mental differences are functional, it's context dependent
SL: assume trigger warning on PW.
Aud: is it a reasonable generalization to say that for well-done CWD is that their defining trait isn't their disability but it's an important one
LJ: context-dependent; make characters well rounded
SL: don't make it the defining characteristic
LJ: make all characters well-rounded
Aud: Heinlein's Waldo(?) didn't consider himself disabled; 1st disabled character
SL: cure narrative
Aud: escapism blamed for bad portrayals. Is this endemic in escapist lit?
SP: can write escapist lit and still include a wide variety of people
LJ: escapism meant only cis white dudes. Must portray the world. Recognize ourselves in fiction—how we define who we are. “it's escapism” is lazy
SL: escaping to that world is telling
GC: what is lacking is realistic representations of people with disabilities, etc.
SL: finds it interesting—doesn't want the Teflon future.
Aud: references a book (missed title) 1st person autism cure narrative
LJ: gives her heebie jeebies
SP: Curious Incident of Dog in Nighttime good portrayal of autism, not cure narrative
Aud: neglecting to tell stories of aging
LJ: good question
Aud 2: Remnant Population handles aging and disability
LJ: Curse of Chalion
SL: Vorkosigan books
Aud: Jacqueline Koyanagi, Ascension (?) coming out in winter from Prime Books
Don't write inspiration porn
LJ: rare in SF, more in popular culture. Awful.
SP: Winter Well (CG) older female protags. CG going out of their way to publish untold narratives.
Sarah Pinsker epilepsy education
Gwendolyn Clare concerned as an educator
Shira Lipkin neuro disabilities, doesn't see people like her in sf; erasure
LJ reads story from yesterday's Guardian “Many depictions of disabled characters are outdated, incorrect. Rooted in social norms, devalue individual. Limiting characterization, inaccuracies portrayed as truth; disability hate crime” That's why it's important to portray these characters in fiction.
Q: Why are there so few characters w/disabilities in SF?
SL: responds to quote: disabilities aren't always a struggle. CWD more difficult to write, more research, barriers to entry for disabled writers-workshops, residencies. Outsider perspectives, struggle narratives. People are afraid to tackle it.
Q: is the status of CWD similar to where we came from with queer characters?
GC: starting to progress. How can write a character with real agency, despite being disabled, without focusing on the disability?
SP: It's intimidating to get writing the other right, same erasure problems, people wonder why there's an Other character there. People imagine colorless, genderless, etc future.
Q: Character w/disability = new damsel in distress? Kid w/autism needs to be protected, person in wheelchair needs to be saved.
SP: Miles Vorkosigan has agency etc despite being disabled
SL: Miles is the only disabled character people can think of; that's really telling.
GC: Tyrion (GOT), important to narrative
LJ: Jenny Casey (E Bear); portrays washed-out soldier who battles w/her body on a daily basis, deals with arthritis, PTSD, etc. In fantasy it's a “perfect” world; should see more realistic things in SF
SL: new (medical) technologies could become dangerous
GC: cybernetic limbs are a solution, can also erase – cure trope
LJ: “A Wizard Alone” problematic-resolution is cure of wizard with autism
SL: Autism Speaks doesn't speak for autistic people; Deaf cochlear implants; not everybody wants a cure
GC: comes from a good place, people want to help loved ones, but it comes out not benevolent but “if you have a disability, you cannot be a protagonist with agency until you get fixed.”
SP: erases struggle people have gone through
LJ: And success.
Remembers example on NPR of war correspondent who was paraplegic since teenager (Fresh Air). Covering stories in US vs Beirut. Despite existence of ADA here, it was easier for him to work in war-torn countries that didn't have the legislation, curb cuts, etc. Community that help each other. In US, it's individual oriented.
How much does independence above all influence works?
SL: Culture absolutely affects.
LJ: Culture of cure
SL: Wants to see in SF: Cure will be asymmetrical. Diabetes will be cured before epilepsy, rarer genetic disorders. Less impetus to cure everything
Will be unevenly distributed
SP: Culture of cure – medical conferences, drug companies don't want to bring out drugs with tiny market; not profitable enough. Easy cures are a false road.
SL: No one knows how epileptic drugs affect the brain.
LJ: a lot of ways to explore the narrative of unevenly distributed cure
GC: culture of cure includes a culture of stigma against mental illness, any disabilities.
Q: Characters with developmental disabilities fall into 2 categories: victim or comic relief
SL: Hodor is comic relief, disturbed to see him on the list
GC: Lacks agency, dehumanized
SP: short vs long fiction? Few novels, but some shorts. Recs “Movement” by Nancy Fulda
Q: Aside from Miles, who is portrayed well?
SL: Jenny Casey, Tyrion
LJ: Bran, Jamie loses hand – loses ability, feels that agency damaged in process
SL: how are characters who become disabled different from born with disability?
GC: Charles Xavier
Q: Who is portrayed poorly?
GC: anyone with a disability superpower (DareDevil)
SP: Charlie (Algernon) [discussion that it was visited by the suck fairy]
LJ: by lazy writer
SL: motivational character for protagonist
LJ: Tony Stark? Vulnerable because of injuries, supercompensates: good or bad example?
SL: In character for Tony. What about the Hulk? Can't control transformations
GC: Pepper cured of annoying superpower, bothered her;
SP: Batman cures broken back through exercise
SL: bootstraps!
LJ: peeve: almost mortal wounds that character recovers from quickly. Portrayal of injury, wound healing, pain laughable.
GC: creates narrative that tough=injury doesn't matter
SL: insidious message to send our culture
SP: do the research, get it right
LJ: no excuse to get it wrong other than laziness (internet exists). RL example of Shira's point: sons are r-g colorblind. Teacher gave detention because he didn't color maps right. She reminded them he's colorblind. Teacher said “if he tried hard enough, he could do a good job.”
This finds its way into our fiction, to the detriment of all.
Aud: points out things. Sp Ed teacher, gifted w/special needs, has special needs herself. Appreciates that they didn't belittle it. Wants feedback: problematic in F/SF attitude in society, teachers push “we're all disabled” but it does a disservice to kids. (Some kind of organization?) Also modern writers of YA depicting disabled characters in a different way. “Get it” better. How do you think adult writers will address this generation of kids, who've read this YA?
SP: needs to be more, invisibility
discussion of CPAP machine: what will happen when the electricity goes away?
SL: wants to know what this generation will write. “We're all disabled” is a huge erasure. Discusses difficulty settings: just acknowledge it. Don't erase lived experiences.
LJ: something precious in that conceit.
Aud: exploration of disability in Peter Watts' Blindsight
LJ: found it fascinating; characters flawed and advantaged in interesting ways
SL: can't discuss without spoilers
GC: overall message is that people with mental differences are functional, it's context dependent
SL: assume trigger warning on PW.
Aud: is it a reasonable generalization to say that for well-done CWD is that their defining trait isn't their disability but it's an important one
LJ: context-dependent; make characters well rounded
SL: don't make it the defining characteristic
LJ: make all characters well-rounded
Aud: Heinlein's Waldo(?) didn't consider himself disabled; 1st disabled character
SL: cure narrative
Aud: escapism blamed for bad portrayals. Is this endemic in escapist lit?
SP: can write escapist lit and still include a wide variety of people
LJ: escapism meant only cis white dudes. Must portray the world. Recognize ourselves in fiction—how we define who we are. “it's escapism” is lazy
SL: escaping to that world is telling
GC: what is lacking is realistic representations of people with disabilities, etc.
SL: finds it interesting—doesn't want the Teflon future.
Aud: references a book (missed title) 1st person autism cure narrative
LJ: gives her heebie jeebies
SP: Curious Incident of Dog in Nighttime good portrayal of autism, not cure narrative
Aud: neglecting to tell stories of aging
LJ: good question
Aud 2: Remnant Population handles aging and disability
LJ: Curse of Chalion
SL: Vorkosigan books
Aud: Jacqueline Koyanagi, Ascension (?) coming out in winter from Prime Books
Don't write inspiration porn
LJ: rare in SF, more in popular culture. Awful.
SP: Winter Well (CG) older female protags. CG going out of their way to publish untold narratives.
