Level playing field? Just world?

[feuervogel]

Horsecrap. And there's a study that shows the far greater prevalence of the belief that people get what they deserve, that the poor are poor because they're lazy, that the rich are rich because they're so virtuous and hard-working, that luck doesn't play into it at all, in America than in the rest of the world.

Data from the World Values Survey [Alesina, Glaeser, and Sacerdote 2001; Keely 2002] show that ... Americans are about twice as likely as Europeans to think that the poor “are lazy or lack willpower” (60 percent versus 26 percent) and that “in the long run, hard work usually brings a better life” (59 percent versus 34–43 percent [Ladd and Bowman 1998]).

Dear neo-liberals, neo-cons, libertarians, and anyone else who believes the world we live in is really actually a meritocracy: IT ISN'T. You're deluding yourselves if you think it is.

Comments

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

"Just because someone has received unearned advantages that provide undreamed of wealth, that person should use their incredible wealth to some small degree to help those who did not have the same unearned advantages? Preposterous!"

Yeah. Raaaage.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[feuervogel]

Somebody who has $275,000,000 annual income may have to pay $20,000 to the government in THEFT!!! taxes that go to funding Medicare and Medicaid. I don't know *how* he'll survive.

One would hope that a truly principled person of a libertarian persuasion will refuse to receive Medicare after retirement or Medicaid, should they find themselves in dire straits. Or welfare, food stamps, or those other horrible government programs that shouldn't exist because 1% of the people who use them abuse it.

And, like I said. Irreconcilable philosophical differences.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

I remember, I think it was on Scalzi's post about how people who complain about taxes generally don't understand tax law, someone talking about a mother who, if she took a $75,000 job, and put her child into a $24,000/yr daycare program, after taxes, would ONLY net an additional $10,000 in extra income after expenses, on top of her husband's income, and who the hell would work for $10k/yr.

All I could think was how many people would kill to have a job that left them with ten grand a year after expenses - and that this is yet another person who is totally unqualified to talk about what's "fair" in this world.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[feuervogel]

Yep, that's where it was. And they got the thumping they deserved in comments.

IT'S SO UNFAIR, PEOPLE EXPECT ME TO SHARE. Go back to preschool.

(You got listening with beer back!)

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[corpsefairy.livejournal.com]

I have always loved that listening with beer icon.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

It was pretty much the final straw on my Dreamwidth migration... until a random gift of paid time returned it. It's my most valued and versatile icon, and I can't imagine commenting regularly without it.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I will never understand that "It's unfair, people expect me to give up 1% of my income so that 50 other people don't have to give up 10% of theirs!" mindset. Seriously, when you can cause 10% of the population a minor inconvenience and thereby save 50% of the population from disaster... duh. Could happen to anyone, people.

(I did. Someone gave me an anonymous donation of 12 months paid. It is simultaneously awesome and touching, and yet... I was totally going to switch to DW and not give LJ money anymore...)

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[feuervogel]

IT'S FORCE FORCE IS BAD TAXATION IS THEFT IT'S MINE I WORKED FOR IT FUCK YOU YOU CAN'T HAVE IT.

Why can't libertarians see how much like a two-year-old throwing a tantrum it makes them sound?

From the fb thread again (paraphrased): Sure, not everyone who goes on unemployment/welfare will become dependent; it depends on their priorities. But a lot of people are lazy, so they will become dependent, and therefore social safety nets are bad.

I don't see how they completely overlook the inherent classism, Calvinism, and general selfishness of this outlook. (Welfare encourages dependency; poor people are poor because they're lazy [see study referenced in original post]; welfare should be abolished to Teach Those Lazy Fucking Poor People a Lesson.)

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

What I love is the conception that other people will live comfortably on these "safety nets", enough so that they aren't motivated to find jobs that pay money. That's the part I don't get. Once again, it's people not understanding what's going on in the real world.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[feuervogel]

People are totally living high on the hog, with their $300/week (before taxes). And the numbers given are max benefits -- probably not what a single person with no dependents would get.

I can't find good data through google on what AFDC pays, because the top pages of hits are all CATO jackholes and "welfare pays better than work, so why work?" But I found a single article on the difficulty AFDC recipients have in supporting themselves.

Note to CATO-types: have you ever considered that welfare benefits (as well as Medicaid) are pulled when you make over a certain VERY LOW threshold, and that making, for example, 9,500 a year to support two children and getting AFDC and food stamps is OK, but making 10,000 a year and getting your aid pulled means your kids go hungry?

Reality is a lot more complicated than the black and white you make it out to be.

ETA: Not that I expect av3rnus is still reading this thread.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

Speaking as someone who makes $350/wk after taxes... yeah. Not going to try to live on less, thanks much. And it's funny that people will say that if your taxes go up at $200k you've no incentive to earn more near there... but taking away benefits at or below the poverty line is all hunky-dory.

Re: Do you know how far I had to scroll back in facebook to find this?

[feuervogel]

That's how you can tell their principles boil down to "fuck the poor people."