Wangst and weemo

[feuervogel]

I read a lot of writers' blogs. Or LJs, whatever. And I've started to feel like I'm inadequate and inept as a writer, because I wasn't an English major. I'm not Trained in things like Narrative Technique, Structure, and Symbolism, and I'm not well-read enough in classics, folklore, or myths to make use of Allusions.

I'm an impostor.

All I've got is some characters, a story idea, and 20-odd years of reading spec fic (and some Real Books™). No technique, no ideas for creative symbolism or structure or literary allusions.

I'm never gonna sell anything.

Comments

[feuervogel]

I don't even know what structure *means* in this context. Like, I learned the 5-part plot thing in, uh, middle school? (opening, action, climax, denouement; I'm clearly missing something there, since I have 4 words written down), but aside from that, what's structure in a narrative?

It's like, I don't know all these things I feel like I should know, or that would enable me to be more critical or proactive or something when I'm writing, rather than just putting words on paper in order (then going back and filling in where more words need to be.)

[luckykitty.livejournal.com]

Feeling you 100% :( That pretty much describes me to a T.

But honestly, I do wonder how many of these things really apply to all writers. It seems like they come from all walks of life and levels of education.

[feuervogel]

I know there's no One Right Way to do writing, but god I feel like such a poseur.

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

Bollocks to this "poseur" business. There's no club. Booo. If there is a club we should ignore it, they are self-anointed and should be ignored and bypssed. You have something to say and the words to say it with? The end.

(And I hope I actually said what I meant there, but my point is I don't like it that you feel "fake" because of some arbitrary qualifications. :-( )

[feuervogel]

I should probably stop reading some authors' LJs because they depress me. I mean, I don't like *reading* books where the author wants to break your heart all the time, so why the hell would I write them? And everyone seems to LOVE these books where everybody dies and it's depressing and I just don't get it.

[intravenusann.livejournal.com]

I think that's ridiculous. I am an English major--hell, I'm an English major 'with a concentration in Creative Non-Fiction' and I'm trained in all that stuff and well-read in classics, folklore, and myths (not just the Western, Greco-Roman, Biblical stuff either), but honestly I feel like you have a much better chance of becoming an author than I.

I think about it and how many authors do I love who were actually English majors? None. Zip. Zero. How innovative are my fellow English majors? How innovative am I in a sea of other writers and English majors who wish they could be writers? Leads me to feel that people who write become authors and English majors become teachers and professors and perpetuate the cycle.

Rather than piddling away time learning How To Be Like Everyone Else In Your Department And the Mainstream of Respectable Fiction and Non-Fiction That No One Ever Reads, you learned actually useful things and lived a life and read stories which were enjoyable--which I think gives you Something to Write About. Everything else is practice, persistence, and luck.

Also, this:



I hope it cheers you, since that was the intention. I'm probably bitter myself and I hope that doesn't overpower an effort to cheer.

[feuervogel]

Avenue Q makes everything better.

You make good poetry. It's kinda depressing, but that means you can evoke emotions well. (I'm thinking about one you posted earlier this year about living in Guam.)

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Bollocks. I'm not trained. And in all seriousness if you can get yourself one hell of a editor who understands your brain (poor thing in my case) and can recc you books about that sort of stuff -- you don't need to be. Yes it is harder work, yes you'll prob make the same stupid mistakes that I do. But the MOST important thing about writing is that you have a story to tell. The rest can be taught. That spark that makes something interesting can't. In my opinion of course.

[feuervogel]

My brain is a very strange place, and my weemo surely isn't helped by the part of my brain that wants to name things and put them in ordered little boxes. (I'm a sensing-thinking-judging type, and having read what that means on a couple MBTI sites, everything makes so much sense now.)

But how do you know if something is interesting? How do I make this idea into something people would want to read? *sigh*

[chris-smith-atr.livejournal.com]

Oh I am very much an INTJ or ENTJ (depending on when I take the test) so don't worry :)

Interesting for me is when the story is pulling you forward. For instance I don't really LIKE the character I'm writing from First Person POV at the moment but he fascinates me by being very much himself. The story started out simple but things kept on piling up and sub-plots developed of their own accord. Everything is tying together perfectly -- like it would not in real life -- and all leading to the denoument.

That is what I call an interesting story. It also helps that the feedback I receive is positive. I have two very trusted friends whom I've known since fandom-days who're more than willing to tell me "this is shite."

So, write what makes you want to write and have good people who'll call a spade a spade in summary. :)

[pharna.livejournal.com]

I feel you with 2D artwork. Sure I've had some formal training and all, but proportions are still a little iffy, lighting? REALLY iffy. Composition? Passable. Speed? I'm a goddamn snail, I take 4 hours to make what some genius kid shats out in what, 20 minutes?

I found this site and just nearly died.
http://iradukai.com/making/550/fuzitop.html

This site has a bunch of how tos that make me feel like an incompetent tard.

[feuervogel]

OMG. People like that are the reason I gave up trying to learn to draw. (That and I couldn't make myself slog through the penciling and stuff, because I want it done NOW, why can't this be as easy as writing?? ¬_¬)

[tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com]

You don't need a degree or help from so-called experts to read. A lot of what an English degree does is simply to put names to a lot of things you already knew by osmosis.

[feuervogel]

I like knowing the names of things. I may or may not make use of this knowledge, but having it, and being able to say, "oh, this is X" can help.

I occupy a weird intersection between organic writing and ordered. I have no idea how to explain it, though. Like when I learn taiji, I can learn the postures and form, but if I want to improve, I have to know why I'm doing, for example, single whip or cloud hands. I need to know the application, the why.

I'm terrible with theoretical *everything.*

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

Shakespeare didn't major in English. Neither did Hemingway.

Neither, for that matter, did Asimov, Heinlein, L. Sprague de Camp or J.K. Rowling.

Some things you don't need school to learn. Some things that teachers insist on are wrong anyway. Good writing isn't all about following the Rules.

What you're doing is reading the work of people who're actually working in the field, many of whom also got the classical education. That actually puts you one up on those who just had the education, and certainly one up on losers like those folks up top, who didn't do either. ;)

[feuervogel]

This could explain why some current SF writers' work feels somewhat ... pretentious? smug? Let's see how many references to things Well-Educated and Well-Read people should know I can work in to this manuscript! Which always leaves me feeling like an uneducated plebeian.

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

I think there's something to be said for knowing the craft. But you can learn any craft without formal training, and sometimes formal training can actually get in the way. Likewise, the more trained you are, the more likely you are to take that training to heart, and particularly since genre writing is always considered "beneath" literary writers, if that's what you want to do, you're unlikely to get a lot of help from an English department.

College doesn't exist to somehow magically let you learn things you can't learn elsewhere - it exists to provide what is necessary to teach what you can't seem to grasp on your own, and to give you a piece of paper that says you're competent at what you know. That piece of paper doesn't matter when you're shopping manuscripts around, only the knowledge does.

Then again, you're talking to a guy who cut a straight month of math classes at JC, so grain of salt. I still got an A when I came back for test days, though, so make it a small grain.

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

Huh, and here it never even occurred to me to consider myself inadequate or inept as a writer because I am not an English major. It boils down to your ability to tell a story.

The thing to bear in mind is, you're not writing literary fiction, bb, you're writing genre fiction.

Nobody is going to deconstruct your work and inspect it for literary devices until your work becomes very popular and is considered groundbreaking or classic for genre fiction. AND EVEN THEN I find people will pick up far more meaning from your work than you consciously put in. =p

[feuervogel]

Some modern genre writers are very enamored of Structure, Narrative Form, and Deconstruction of Tropes. People love them. They win Hugos. (Also, apparently, Purple Lyrical Prose is the big thing these days.)

I'll also never be considered a Good Writer because I don't like killing off my characters.

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

And is winning a Hugo your goal and why you want to write? Are you looking for literary acclaim? If you are then, yes, be concerned about these things. If you just want to publish your stories and have readers enjoy them then don't sweat it; just tell your stories as best you can. J.K. Rowling is proof technical skill and education are not requirements for writing a popular and money-making story. (Not that I am accusing you of writing as bad as J.K.Rowling, I would never do that! lol I'm just saying, if SHE can do it...)

(Purple lyrical prose will NEVER be a big thing in my taste for writing. If it has come back into vogue then comfort yourself with the knowledge it is a fad and will go away. [Much like acid wash denim.] =p)

As for killing off your characters, dude, who says?

I understand that all creative people navigate ups and downs with their work but don't let these sort of things get to you. Soldier on and keep writing. Rejection is part of the industry and you need to move past the stories that don't sell and keep going!

And, yes, next time I'm having a low moment and going on about how I'm unpublishable feel free to toss all this back at me. I'll likely need a reminder!

[smarriveurr.livejournal.com]

AND EVEN THEN I find people will pick up far more meaning from your work than you consciously put in. =p

My parents always used to talk about one English professor at their college who fetishized some author's work, had whole classes devoted to deconstructing the intricate symbolism and themes and the deeper meaning that went into it, etc, etc. Then, one day, he landed the author to come talk at the college, went to pick him up, and said author spend the whole ride to the college, and much of his talk, angrily deriding all the morons out there who kept trying to read all this deep meaning bullshit into his work.

Apparently, the class was not offered the following years.

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

AHhaha! YES! Exactly! My experience was with a poet and a teacher who kept arguing a particular meaning for this one line and when we asked the poet himself about it he looked at us and pretty much said, "I don't remember what I was thinking when I wrote that."

[trenchkamen.livejournal.com]

Wasn't it Kurt Vonnegut who said that to find the best writers, look anywhere but the English department?

[feuervogel]

Heh. He also said literature shouldn't crawl up its own asshole. Smart man, he.