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Mikki Kendall: karnythia, on panel because it's important to note that the conversation is around women's safety, not necessarily race. Has a bubble. Wants to talk about adjustments people make
Victoria Janssen: writes erotica. Coming from fictional and real perspective. Wants to think about what she includes in her writing to make fiction more open
Liz Gorinsky: editor at Tor. Recognizes she has a lot of privilege; fight is not unidirectional. Some people with power are working to increase inclusivity.
Shira Lipkin: writes short fiction, poetry. Volunteers at BARCC for 7 years as survivor speaker, community devel, motivation. Has done panels relating to sexual violence, intersecting axes of oppression.
(mod) Daniel Jose Older: writer, editor, anti-racist organizer, works on gendered violence. Comes to cons to feel safe with fans but he doesn't. We know we're getting somewhere because there's discomfort. Missing stuff that happens in front of our faces while we're writing.
DJO no troll policy, don't defend sexual assault, don't interrupt, not all X are like that, don't be defensive. We'll have a nice conversation.
(reads description)
Q: What does real safety look like? In a radical way.
MK: wore a lowcut red dress yesterday, and no one bothered her. Didn't leave her bubble, though. Wants to see a con culture where you can wear what you want.
LG: imagines utopic world where you don't have to stay among “safe” people. Also knowing that her friends are safe as well
SL: need to create spaces hostile to inappropriate comments. Person who made comment evicted, no “you're overreacting”
DJO: thinks of his POC friends who love SF but aren't at cons. Finds that con culture isn't welcoming, largely white. Lots of HS kids of color who love SF. Isn't a real institutional drive to figure out how to include more POC. Wonders what would happen if a lot of HS POC came to Arisia
Q: How do you make it happen?
SL: don't let people get away with comments. Speak up when someone says something not OK. Can't change their beliefs, but
MK: may not be as popular as you want to be. Have to be willing to make room for other people who don't look or think like you. In same way as you make room for person in a scooter or with service animal, you need to make room. At 1st Wiscon, stranger grabbed her arm and said “teach me about racism.” She wouldn't take no as an answer. Social awkwardness is part of con life, but please do something when you see someone being a jerk
VJ: need to develop empathy. We think we have good empathy, but we don't. Have to remember that there is a large group, pay attention. Keep an eye out for the person who looks lost. If you don't need the bubble, make effort.
MK: bubble is 45-50 people. Generally welcoming, but if you get 3 white people together, it's a conversation. 3 black people attract hotel security
VJ: partying while black
MK: that's why teens don't attend cons. Can turn into a human zoo. One person at Montreal WC turned hanging out with them into a paper. Recognize humanity of people who aren't like you.
VJ: leave them alone in their bubble
LG: “people don't know any better” let's eradicate that. In internet conversations, someone will say “I didn't know it was that bad for women.” Shocked at microaggressions. 4 years later, why are you still surprised this happens?
VJ: increased reporting makes it obvious it's endemic
SL: Not everyone can speak out. We need to make it easier for them to speak up. If people see someone who looks uncomfortable, you can ask them something as simple as “do you know where the bathroom is?” and it gives them an easy out. Reporting: huge psychological barrier. Power imbalance, not sure it was that bad bc you don't want to believe it, etc. Immigration status. Talks about current legal situation, understands why many people don't: it's hard, and a lot of work
MK: reporting isn't magic. Met someone who talked to her breasts, didn't report him because she knew he'd been reported and nothing happened. (Was Jim Frenkel) Only got stopped because they engaged in the behavior with the wrong person.
SL: Pervocracy's “Missing stair” post. There are still people doing it here
VJ: many people aren't in the loop, lots of women don't get warned about threats to them.
DJO: in con culture, there's a deterrent to speaking up because editors have power. Writers want to increase their careers. Intersection of safety and power. Trivializing of reporting/not reporting has to stop
VJ: not only power of editors, but also social power: status, advantages, exploits
LG: cannot express opinion on Frenkel, says to read Matthesen's post. Rumors vs corporate actionable channels. Jim Hines collected list of people to report to. Can help you get the incident on record.
DJO: wants to see cons taking aggressive steps, not being reactionary. Fighting against lethargy. React to bad thing. Constantly in crisis. Hard to stop to think about why things happen again and again. Something in culturally amiss in the US and in con culture. Tells a story about babies floating down a river and people saving babies rather than seeing what's up the river. Need to look at structural causes. We have to develop a way to hear people when they speak in voices we don't understand or want to hear. Eg anger. Trivializing anger, not listening to words spoken. Anger trivializes their words. Speaking truth makes us angry, because it should. Not tailoring it to look pretty for you, we're speaking truth.
MK: can't expect someone to react calmly to something that has angered, saddened, etc them. They need comfort. Carrion crow behavior: want dirt as soon as possible, but don't care about what it costs person
DJO: talks about first responders and people in crisis
Aud: asks about straight cis white dude who might be an ally who says something you don't like, what is our responsibility to that person?
MK: I used to try to explain, and if you've got the energy, go for it. But if you have to explain your basic humanity to them, they're not your friend or an ally. If you keep talking to them and they don't learn, it's not you. You can say “you're a jackass, I have to stop.”
DJO: your responsibility to me is 0. you don't have a responsibility to anyone to teach them how to see you as a human. These moments should call into question who we hold close to us. Have to decide whether to keep that person in your life. Self-care is the #1 thing to deal with. And healing.
SL: put your own oxygen mask on first.
Aud: wants to agree with DJO that you have no responsibility to others, but some people want to do it. Set your boundaries and stick to them: timer, location, etc.
DJO: prepares himself going into a space. Then somewhere else someone pops off and he wants to scream. Sometimes he doesn't call people out because he's burned out, even though he's good at it. Don't try to be caller out's best friend.
Aud: learned how to be a good ally as cis white queer woman, moved responsibility for safety to people with power. Training men not to be abusers, for example. One tool is twitter: follows people who speak about these things from their perspectives, so she can passively learn it. The shitty defensive feeling is being silenced (?) Wants to see in con culture something that teaches you how to recognize your privilege.
MK: Readercon is trying really hard, sparkly lanyards for people to report to. People need to figure it out on their own. She gets allies looking for cookies a lot. The other day on twitter someone stepped in to link drop. If you have the energy do it.
DJO: allies can run into white knight syndrome. Be careful, pay attention. In a Latino college group, some guys were saying sexist stuff. Another guy said to him that he was upset that he didn't stop the conversation. DJO didn't know how to do it comfortably, guy told him his life as a queer Latino was uncomfortable every day.
MK: be prepared for the conversation where this thing you like is offensive. Some folks are just jackasses.
DJO: editing Long Hidden, closing July 31: spec fic from margins of history.
Close: use the baby river to ask what is up the river. Answer is the river is a circle and people keep throwing babies back in.
Victoria Janssen: writes erotica. Coming from fictional and real perspective. Wants to think about what she includes in her writing to make fiction more open
Liz Gorinsky: editor at Tor. Recognizes she has a lot of privilege; fight is not unidirectional. Some people with power are working to increase inclusivity.
Shira Lipkin: writes short fiction, poetry. Volunteers at BARCC for 7 years as survivor speaker, community devel, motivation. Has done panels relating to sexual violence, intersecting axes of oppression.
(mod) Daniel Jose Older: writer, editor, anti-racist organizer, works on gendered violence. Comes to cons to feel safe with fans but he doesn't. We know we're getting somewhere because there's discomfort. Missing stuff that happens in front of our faces while we're writing.
DJO no troll policy, don't defend sexual assault, don't interrupt, not all X are like that, don't be defensive. We'll have a nice conversation.
(reads description)
Q: What does real safety look like? In a radical way.
MK: wore a lowcut red dress yesterday, and no one bothered her. Didn't leave her bubble, though. Wants to see a con culture where you can wear what you want.
LG: imagines utopic world where you don't have to stay among “safe” people. Also knowing that her friends are safe as well
SL: need to create spaces hostile to inappropriate comments. Person who made comment evicted, no “you're overreacting”
DJO: thinks of his POC friends who love SF but aren't at cons. Finds that con culture isn't welcoming, largely white. Lots of HS kids of color who love SF. Isn't a real institutional drive to figure out how to include more POC. Wonders what would happen if a lot of HS POC came to Arisia
Q: How do you make it happen?
SL: don't let people get away with comments. Speak up when someone says something not OK. Can't change their beliefs, but
MK: may not be as popular as you want to be. Have to be willing to make room for other people who don't look or think like you. In same way as you make room for person in a scooter or with service animal, you need to make room. At 1st Wiscon, stranger grabbed her arm and said “teach me about racism.” She wouldn't take no as an answer. Social awkwardness is part of con life, but please do something when you see someone being a jerk
VJ: need to develop empathy. We think we have good empathy, but we don't. Have to remember that there is a large group, pay attention. Keep an eye out for the person who looks lost. If you don't need the bubble, make effort.
MK: bubble is 45-50 people. Generally welcoming, but if you get 3 white people together, it's a conversation. 3 black people attract hotel security
VJ: partying while black
MK: that's why teens don't attend cons. Can turn into a human zoo. One person at Montreal WC turned hanging out with them into a paper. Recognize humanity of people who aren't like you.
VJ: leave them alone in their bubble
LG: “people don't know any better” let's eradicate that. In internet conversations, someone will say “I didn't know it was that bad for women.” Shocked at microaggressions. 4 years later, why are you still surprised this happens?
VJ: increased reporting makes it obvious it's endemic
SL: Not everyone can speak out. We need to make it easier for them to speak up. If people see someone who looks uncomfortable, you can ask them something as simple as “do you know where the bathroom is?” and it gives them an easy out. Reporting: huge psychological barrier. Power imbalance, not sure it was that bad bc you don't want to believe it, etc. Immigration status. Talks about current legal situation, understands why many people don't: it's hard, and a lot of work
MK: reporting isn't magic. Met someone who talked to her breasts, didn't report him because she knew he'd been reported and nothing happened. (Was Jim Frenkel) Only got stopped because they engaged in the behavior with the wrong person.
SL: Pervocracy's “Missing stair” post. There are still people doing it here
VJ: many people aren't in the loop, lots of women don't get warned about threats to them.
DJO: in con culture, there's a deterrent to speaking up because editors have power. Writers want to increase their careers. Intersection of safety and power. Trivializing of reporting/not reporting has to stop
VJ: not only power of editors, but also social power: status, advantages, exploits
LG: cannot express opinion on Frenkel, says to read Matthesen's post. Rumors vs corporate actionable channels. Jim Hines collected list of people to report to. Can help you get the incident on record.
DJO: wants to see cons taking aggressive steps, not being reactionary. Fighting against lethargy. React to bad thing. Constantly in crisis. Hard to stop to think about why things happen again and again. Something in culturally amiss in the US and in con culture. Tells a story about babies floating down a river and people saving babies rather than seeing what's up the river. Need to look at structural causes. We have to develop a way to hear people when they speak in voices we don't understand or want to hear. Eg anger. Trivializing anger, not listening to words spoken. Anger trivializes their words. Speaking truth makes us angry, because it should. Not tailoring it to look pretty for you, we're speaking truth.
MK: can't expect someone to react calmly to something that has angered, saddened, etc them. They need comfort. Carrion crow behavior: want dirt as soon as possible, but don't care about what it costs person
DJO: talks about first responders and people in crisis
Aud: asks about straight cis white dude who might be an ally who says something you don't like, what is our responsibility to that person?
MK: I used to try to explain, and if you've got the energy, go for it. But if you have to explain your basic humanity to them, they're not your friend or an ally. If you keep talking to them and they don't learn, it's not you. You can say “you're a jackass, I have to stop.”
DJO: your responsibility to me is 0. you don't have a responsibility to anyone to teach them how to see you as a human. These moments should call into question who we hold close to us. Have to decide whether to keep that person in your life. Self-care is the #1 thing to deal with. And healing.
SL: put your own oxygen mask on first.
Aud: wants to agree with DJO that you have no responsibility to others, but some people want to do it. Set your boundaries and stick to them: timer, location, etc.
DJO: prepares himself going into a space. Then somewhere else someone pops off and he wants to scream. Sometimes he doesn't call people out because he's burned out, even though he's good at it. Don't try to be caller out's best friend.
Aud: learned how to be a good ally as cis white queer woman, moved responsibility for safety to people with power. Training men not to be abusers, for example. One tool is twitter: follows people who speak about these things from their perspectives, so she can passively learn it. The shitty defensive feeling is being silenced (?) Wants to see in con culture something that teaches you how to recognize your privilege.
MK: Readercon is trying really hard, sparkly lanyards for people to report to. People need to figure it out on their own. She gets allies looking for cookies a lot. The other day on twitter someone stepped in to link drop. If you have the energy do it.
DJO: allies can run into white knight syndrome. Be careful, pay attention. In a Latino college group, some guys were saying sexist stuff. Another guy said to him that he was upset that he didn't stop the conversation. DJO didn't know how to do it comfortably, guy told him his life as a queer Latino was uncomfortable every day.
MK: be prepared for the conversation where this thing you like is offensive. Some folks are just jackasses.
DJO: editing Long Hidden, closing July 31: spec fic from margins of history.
Close: use the baby river to ask what is up the river. Answer is the river is a circle and people keep throwing babies back in.
