feuervogel (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
feuervogel) wrote2010-06-22 12:27 pm
feuervogel) wrote2010-06-22 12:27 pm
Entry tags:
Third-gender pronouns and binary-identified individuals
I read a blog post yesterday, an intro post from a guest blogger at feministe who usually writes over at Questioning Transphobia.
Queen Emily writes Don’t use third gender pronouns (eg “ze” and “hir”) on a binary identified person because it ungenders them. (Third-gender pronouns are also known as gender-neutral pronouns.) Then down in comments, she says, When someone uses “ze” to refer to me when I have explicitly referred to myself as a trans woman, it’s ungendering and cissexist to boot.
When I read this post bysohotrightnow, Queen Emily's post was the first thing I thought of, even though the writer of the problematic story (which I agree is problematic, and that is not the topic of this post; I'm not even involved in bandom) identifies as female.
The section that made me click the link to the writer's profile:
(You can see the wtfery evidenced by promisethstars in this quote, but that's not what I'm looking at.) I clicked the profile tag, and saw that Megan will occasionally "fangirl out." To me, that reads as "I identify as a girl."
Ungendering is a tactic used against trans-spectrum individuals by the media, academics, and radical feminists. I obviously do NOT believe that using "zie" to refer to a binary-identified cis-individual has anywhere near the emotional impact it does on a binary-identified trans-individual. But it isn't appropriate, either.
Or am I talking out of my ass here?
Queen Emily writes Don’t use third gender pronouns (eg “ze” and “hir”) on a binary identified person because it ungenders them. (Third-gender pronouns are also known as gender-neutral pronouns.) Then down in comments, she says, When someone uses “ze” to refer to me when I have explicitly referred to myself as a trans woman, it’s ungendering and cissexist to boot.
When I read this post by
sohotrightnow, Queen Emily's post was the first thing I thought of, even though the writer of the problematic story (which I agree is problematic, and that is not the topic of this post; I'm not even involved in bandom) identifies as female.The section that made me click the link to the writer's profile:
When I engagedpromisethstars in discussion and tried to explain why this was bothering me, zie raised the point that the story is an AU, and argued that from zir perspective, there was no difference between making Gabe Saporta a Catholic priest for zir AU and making Patrick Stump a prostitute for another AU.
(You can see the wtfery evidenced by promisethstars in this quote, but that's not what I'm looking at.) I clicked the profile tag, and saw that Megan will occasionally "fangirl out." To me, that reads as "I identify as a girl."
Ungendering is a tactic used against trans-spectrum individuals by the media, academics, and radical feminists. I obviously do NOT believe that using "zie" to refer to a binary-identified cis-individual has anywhere near the emotional impact it does on a binary-identified trans-individual. But it isn't appropriate, either.
Or am I talking out of my ass here?
no subject
I'm just not seeing how this apology is in any way meaningful as an apology. Sure, change your actions with this particular person - we both agree on that. And sure you're responsible for hurting them if you do it again once you know. But I don't see how you even consider it to be a mistake when you go on to claim you'll do the exact same thing in the future when in the same situation.
It just rings very hollow as an apology and a belief in having made a mistake.
If there is some actual mistake here, then what is it and how can it be avoided altogether? I'm all for recognizing that this may be a common area of sensitivity. So, do you think you should always ask someone's pronoun choice before ever referring to them? What if you want to make a comment about someone in an online discussion who doesn't make their pronoun choice clear? What degree of research should you be obligated to do?