Third-gender pronouns and binary-identified individuals

[feuervogel]

I read a blog post yesterday, an intro post from a guest blogger at feministe who usually writes over at Questioning Transphobia.

Queen Emily writes Don’t use third gender pronouns (eg “ze” and “hir”) on a binary identified person because it ungenders them. (Third-gender pronouns are also known as gender-neutral pronouns.) Then down in comments, she says, When someone uses “ze” to refer to me when I have explicitly referred to myself as a trans woman, it’s ungendering and cissexist to boot.

When I read this post by sohotrightnow, Queen Emily's post was the first thing I thought of, even though the writer of the problematic story (which I agree is problematic, and that is not the topic of this post; I'm not even involved in bandom) identifies as female.

The section that made me click the link to the writer's profile:

When I engaged promisethstars in discussion and tried to explain why this was bothering me, zie raised the point that the story is an AU, and argued that from zir perspective, there was no difference between making Gabe Saporta a Catholic priest for zir AU and making Patrick Stump a prostitute for another AU.

(You can see the wtfery evidenced by promisethstars in this quote, but that's not what I'm looking at.) I clicked the profile tag, and saw that Megan will occasionally "fangirl out." To me, that reads as "I identify as a girl."

Ungendering is a tactic used against trans-spectrum individuals by the media, academics, and radical feminists. I obviously do NOT believe that using "zie" to refer to a binary-identified cis-individual has anywhere near the emotional impact it does on a binary-identified trans-individual. But it isn't appropriate, either.

Or am I talking out of my ass here?

Comments

[eisen]

"zie/ze" has a habit of getting used as a replacement for singular "they" when the author doesn't want to preemptively ascribe a gender to whoever they're responding to when they think there might be any confusion at all on their part; I myself have used it in the past because I think, in the absence of a definitive statement on the part of the individual, I consider impolite in the extreme to shove my own assumptions about their gender onto them when I don't know - because I find it offensive every time someone does it to me.

THAT SAID. Repeatedly using "zie/ze" when someone, anyone (but especially a trans person) has explicitly said what gender they are - that is ungendering and cissexist and presumptive as fuck. :| Ihave it in my intro post and I'm pretty sure my profile that I am pretty firmly identified as female and if I caught someone referring to me with "zie/ze" I would - well, I'd probably rage internally but I'd be so hurt by it I wouldn't say a fucking thing, because look, I have said what my gender is, the least I ask is that other people respect that, not doing so is already a sign the space isn't safe for me and I won't be welcome there.

[feuervogel]

I understand that, and that's what I figured SHRN was doing, but it still twigged me. I think we'd be better off with people just kicking prescriptivists in the teeth and using singular they. It's got a long history, after all.

I don't know why "they" doesn't bother me but "zie" does; perhaps the association "zie" has with the genderqueer community and those who reject the binary, so person a referring to person b (whose gender identity person a does not know, or doesn't feel like looking for in the profile) as "zie" is assigning them a genderqueer identity? While person a is trying to avoid shoving their own gender assumptions on person b.

And, yes, dammit, use people's preferred pronouns. If someone called me "he," I'd be annoyed. (Though I periodically get mail for Mr. Feuervogel, which goes immediately into the recycling bin.) If someone referred to me as zie, it may or may not bother me, but being cis, I have the privilege of every instance of misgendering not being another knife in my side. (That, and I'm unlikely to be misgendered in person.)

[leora]

Interesting. I have never been upset when someone has used male pronouns for me. I am sometimes amused, and I actually kind of like to have it happen now and then, because I figure when people are guessing my gender, I'd rather they not guess consistently.

But then, I don't care much about gender personally. I don't mind being she, he. or zie. But I do get that some people do, and the issue isn't unimportant just because I am not personally harmed by it.

I almost never correct people's pronoun usage for me, because I'm really fine with any of the gender options and don't feel that it matters what gender people view me as.

[feuervogel]

I think annoyed is the wrong emotion. It's more that it's the wrong word to refer to me, so I find it odd. It doesn't offend me, it's just weird and wrong.

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way.

I usually get her/she so I like occasionally getting him/he. I like the inconsistency.

"But then, I don't care much about gender personally. I don't mind being she, he. or zie. But I do get that some people do, and the issue isn't unimportant just because I am not personally harmed by it."--mhmm, except I feel like I only get it in a very superficial, theoretical way; on a gut level I do not understand it.