feuervogel | Young people don't need health insurance!

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Young people don't need health insurance!

Insurance company: You can get a temporary policy, but if you want to continue it, you have to reapply. And if you use the temporary insurance, you've got a pre-existing condition, for which we'll deny you. That sounds fair. Sure.

The coverage my friends were able to purchase for their daughter was a 180 day policy. The terms of the policy required that, if they wanted to "renew" it, in effect, they had to reapply for it all over again. At which time, the insurance company was free to take into account any "pre-existing conditions" as a cause for denying coverage. "Pre-existing conditions", in this case, included any conditions for which the policy holder sought treatment for during the 180 days of coverage for which they had paid for.

Read also this post, about one of the victims of the health club shooting: a recent college grad without health insurance who can't afford the bill for the surgery (necessitated by some sick fuck who wanted to take revenge on all women for merely existing and not fucking him, apparently) so her friends & neighbors held a CAR WASH. A fucking car wash.

These are two examples of why this country needs universal coverage, like every other civilized nation on the planet.

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"These are two examples of why this country needs universal coverage, like every other civilized nation on the planet."

Every time I hear something about "this will [have negative ramifications], like you can see sort of happening in Canada or England!", I'm like "How about Israel? Japan? Sweden? Austria? Germany, where fucking OTTO VON BISMARCK got the ball rolling a century ago? Oh, save some time - how are things on the whole in ALMOST ALL OF EUROPE and the industrialized WORLD?"

Gah, to listen to the critics you'd think Universal Health Care was some radical, experimental thing a couple countries tried, and they find themselves foundering. You wouldn't realize we're one of the last, stupid, stubborn holdouts.

But I don't wanna pay for other people's health care! I don't wanna pay for coverage of $CONDITION for myself! You'd think we're a nation of sociopaths who don't understand empathy or the common good.

Or there's always the satire version.

I particularly liked the townhallers yelling to "keep your dirty governments hands off my medicare." Or famous conservative actors saying that there was no government initiative to help them out, back when they were on food stamps and welfare.

Or, y'know, the "death panels" stuff... based on the end-of-life counseling services sponsored by Republicans.

I really wish there were some objective, incorruptible means to say "You are not sufficiently informed on this issue to take active part in the political discourse, or vote on the referendum, etc. Do more actual research and try again later."

Hey, the kid that rides the motorcycle without insurance? Harvest and sell the organs from their bodies! The death panel will declare whose bodies we harvest and when.

Dude, I bet if I said that, people would believe it.
*Headdesk*

To be fair, I've heard in Japan because the health care is controlled by the government that they do stuff like put you on government mandated diets if you get a little chubby :v With fines and shit if you don't shape up, quite literally.

Frankly if I want to die by obesity that's my choice. Of course I feel the same way about drugs and rock and roll. If you die in a way that doesn't take someone out with you, it's your own business :v

Dunno. Ask

pharna about that, as she's currently resident in Japan. And paying hardly anything out of pocket for massage therapy and various tests & procedures.

My point being, however, that there are a lot more examples of universal healthcare than Canada and England. And, well, we've already got lawmakers pushing to outlaw trans-fats and sodium here, so it's not like we're in a good position to decry the Japanese system. ;)

All that said, I do wish there was more public awareness about the fact that you can't actually die of obesity - even the morbid kind. It just correlates to increased risks on other fronts, sometimes not even as a causal factor. There's a lot of misinformation about being heavy out there, and it's annoying to see the focus on weight instead of actual health.

Heck, I saw a program just this morning about how people gain weight while exercizing - a long string of statements like if you do a 25 minute kickboxing routine, then have a latte, the calories cancel out, so it was all a waste. Because, you know, the muscle tone, coordination, stress relief, lower blood pressure, higher energy levels, better sleep, etc, etc, etc... all that's meaningless if you're not thinner, that's the whole point of exercise and the only way it's healthy!

(All of which is to say, I'm overweight and I don't think it's the government's job to change that, but I also smoke and if they think I should pay more for care because I indulge in something that actually increases my risk of disease, I'm willing to debate that. Not that it matters much right now, since the current debate is just some humanitarian regulation of the industry and a public option.)

Whaaaa..............That second story is just...Assssssssssssssssssss

I heart Moon medicine. D:

I don't know how to take your car wash comment. Back home I know a lot of people who can't get decent health care even with insurance and have to leave the island for, say, surgery or cancer treatment and go to the PI for necessary treatment and maybe it is just a cultural difference, but people often do car washes to raise the money needed to pay for the procedure, the transportation, the housing, and etc. Because even though it's cheaper in some regards, it is still very costly and sucky to go to Manilla for your chemo, or whatever. It usually earns a lot of money and there are companies that will match profits to a certain level and it's a way that a community can support someone even if they don't, as a group, have enough funds to just pool their money and take care of someone.

Like I really do not grasp the vitrol that is being thrown at this car wash idea. Is this a massive cultural disconnect happening here? Are we seeing this as "how pathetic they had to throw a fucking car wash to help out this girl"? Rather than "Wow! Awesome community effort! Much love and togetherness and yeah, we don't need the car washed, but have twenty bucks we have to spare!" (People who leave tens and fives better have a damn good reason, imho, that's just stingy)

I know this may be a distraction and I don't mean it to be, since I will age out of my parents health insurance soon and it isn't even health insurance that covers me all the way out here in Maryland, but I get this knee jerk reaction of "And what's wrong with car washes?!" even while I'm going "Man, that's a fucked up situation and it's just plain wrong that this should even ever happen like this."

My point was that people shouldn't have to have car washes to pay for medical treatment, especially when, say, they can't afford to buy private insurance and they're minding their own damn business at the gym (taking care of their health, which is the personal responsibility canard the medical Calvinists like to throw around) when some misogynist asshole opens fire. Car washes are, at least where I've lived, how school kids raise money for band trips or new softball uniforms. Useful and important things, but not like *their lives.*

It's great that they banded together to help her out and I support people working together like that, but it's horrible that they had to.

Okay!

Yeah, it's pretty heinous. It's heinous that people have to go to other countries to get the treatment they need, or to afford it, it's heinous that they can't afford emergency care, or when emergency care isn't available to them because of the quality of care available or its nonexistance. That, in a developed country that thinks so highly of itself, a mass of people can be killed in cold blood because of their gender and then the survivors are denied basic care for any reason--that's the kind of thing we think of happening Other Places and I hope that more people will take a look and realize that it isn't.

People are just very ignorant about the issues, here, and they've been lead by the nose with their ignorance until they are worked into a froth of fear, anger, and deliberate misinformation. And, unfortunately, no matter what the facts are a lot of people just won't hear it, because their minds are totally won over by greedy fear mongering.

If I had the heart or the time, I'd sit down everyone and calmly explain to them how a public insurance option works and how it's just a subsidized insurance option and paired with cuts in general health care costs it helps make sure that everyone can get life saving treatment and prevention when they need it and fewer loved ones and children and young people will have to die because they couldn't get the care they needed in a first world country.

(Guam does fundraising of the manual labor kind or the church collection kind for all kinds of big important things like health care costs and rebuilding people's homes or paying for funerals or whatever... I have no idea what the greater meaning of that is, aside from the community interdependence it's a part of)

I get the general point they're making in the second post about the car wash. But I could have lived without calling people who don't want to pay higher taxes racist, or assuming that everyone who donates in a can but doesn't want to pay taxes is largely doing it to "stick it to the man".

My primary concern is that higher taxes could potentially effect my ability to pay my bills at home etc, it's a legitimate concern. As much as I want to make sure everyone is taken care of, let's face it, I want to take care of myself first.

Why I put change in jars, click the "Donate $5" button at the pet store, etc has nothing to do with sticking it to the man. It's because at that point and time, I can AFFORD to. Tax increases make me nervous because I've had moments in my life where I've played the "Okay we're not paying electricity this month so we're not homeless" game. I don't KNOW that the higher taxes won't be a burden and cost em my lively hood at some point.

Of course, the usual idea of *progressive* taxation is that if you're at the point where you can barely pay for your own survival, you ought to not be paying a lot of taxes. Hasn't the current administration repeatedly stated plans *not* to raise taxes on earnings below amount $X, where $X is pretty darn generous? (Leaving out specific numbers since I'm too busy/lazy to make sure I have them correct just now.)

I mean, you can argue trickle-down economic pain from taxing high earners if you want (I don't tend to believe it much, but it's at least a not completely impossible theory), but I'm constantly surprised by how many people loudly object to taxes when they personally have extremely little chance of their taxes rising under any plan currently being discussed.

Or you could put it concisely while I blather on for 5 paragraphs...

Where did you get sticking it to the man out of the article?

Re your last paragraph: if taxes are raised, they're raised on higher incomes, because they can afford it better. If health cover is taken from tax revenue, and everyone pays it, the premium will vanish. It's also likely that the amount of tax money taken to pay for health cover will be *less than* the current premium. (Also? Remove the cap on FICA-eligible income.)

Ben hasn't had a single raise in his job, which he's had for 9 years now. Know why? All the money that could be going to an increase in take-home pay is going to BCBS. Insurance premiums have increased 98% -- almost doubled! -- in the last 10 years, while wages have increased 20%.

Take the money from premiums and give it to the employees. It'll be taxed, and possibly at a higher rate, but I'd wager that for the average worker, the new tax would be less than the premium. When you get down to the workers who don't currently have coverage because they can't afford it and the employer doesn't provide it, you'll likely see an increase in taxes, but I can envision a tax structure that doesn't unduly increase the burden on the poor (or at all.) I believe in taxing the rich, which is unpopular among people of a certain viewpoint and a certain income level. (Approximately mine, actually, if I worked full time. I'd clear over 100K.)

"You are participating in the mythology of 'we all take care of ourselves and we don't depend on gov'mint handouts'."

That's the part I interpreted as "sticking it to the man". And I suppose its not just a burden on the "poor" we're classified as middle class between myself and Xander's income we make decent money.

But your tax bracket isn't determined by the ratio of what we pay in bills, housing and etc compared to what we bring home. I'm not saying I'm completely against taxes or anything, but I do worry that we'll be affected by them as there's not a lot of play in our budget.

I guess my over all point is, money's tight and the tax has to be exactly right for me to feel I can really support it.

But that's not what sticking it to the man means. It's someone who says "haha, govmint! You ain't getting my money 'cause I'm off the grid!"

It's true, tax brackets don't take regional costs of living into account. But I'd still bet any increase in taxes would be less than a monthly premium (which can be $500 for a single person, and goes up from there, with the average cost for a family of 4 being $13,000/yr. I can think of a lot of things a family of 4 could do with 13 grand a year, even if they paid 15% of it in taxes.)

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Young people don't need health insurance!

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